I took jazz guitar lessons from Roy Plumb (1928-2004) during the late 1970s. In an earlier post (here), I wrote down a little of what I know. Since then I have a learned more from his friends and students (here). The article above (a newspaper clipping from the Wisconsin Dells Events passed on by Peter Crist, one of Roy's students) begs more questions than it answers (click to enlarge). If anyone has any more information (concrete or anecdotal) about Roy, either get in touch with me or join the FRIENDS/STUDENTS OF ROY PLUMB Facebook Group (here). Here are some of my questions:
- Does anyone have any more information about Roy's time with Hoagy Carmichael's Teenagers? You can hear one of the radio episodes from 1947 when Roy was supposedly with the group on My Old Radio (listen to the episode from the Armed Forces Radio Service here, you'll have to join to hear the cut but membership is free). I can't hear any guitar playing on the clip but this is pretty great ensemble playing and it would have been a great experience for any teenager to play with and arrange for the group.
- According to the article, Roy received a special permit from California Governor Earl Warren that allowed him to appear in night clubs during WWII. Is there any record of this permit in the California archives or Earl Warren's Papers (here)?
- Roy evidently played with and arranged for the Dorseys (Jimmy and Tommy), Harry James and Paul Weston. Does anyone have any ensemble pictures of these bands in the 1940's? Can anyone recognize the rhythm section guitarist?
- Roy is also said to have scored the theme for the 1944 film "Laura" with music by David Raksin and the 1955 movie "Picnic" with music by George Dunning and Steve Allen. There is definitely a guitarist playing rhythm guitar in the Picnic theme (video below) and there is a beautifully arranged string section. Was this Roy's work? It's harder to tell on the theme from the movie Laura. I will compare the theme to an arrangement of Roy's in a future post.
- Roy was left handed and the article claims that he had the "world's only left-handed 7-string guitar" that was designed by George Van Eps, a friend and teacher of Roy (the original Van Eps 7-string guitar is in the Musical Instrument Museum, Phoenix, AZ and is pictured below--the guitar is also visible on their website). The article claims that Roy's instrument was made by one of Roy's students, a cabinet maker in Madison, WI. This assertion seems wrong and I have been unable to located the un-named student in Madison. It would be great to clear up this issue.
- Roy's major claim to fame was having been an arranger for Frank Sinatra. This isn't mentioned in the article, it's very important and we need better documentation of this period in his life.
- Roy came to Madison, WI sometime in the late 1950s and completed a Masters Degree at the University of Wisconsin in 1961. His thesis was titled The influence of the lute and guitar on musical texture and idiom of Renaissance keyboard literature. It would be useful to have more information about this period, the exact date he came to Madison, who in the UW Music Department was his thesis advisor, how he selected the topic, etc.
- From sometime in the 1960's until sometime before his death in 2004, Roy taught at Patti Music in Madison, WI. All the recollections of Roy's friends and students date from this period, but the exact dates and many other details remain unclear.
Theme from the 1955 film Picnic with great boddice ripper still pictures.
Theme from the 1944 film Laura with more great still pictures.
You can hear Van Eps playing the instrument here.
I took guitar lessons from Roy in the early 1960s when I was at UW Madison. I majored in Physics and Mathematics. I played trumpet in the UW marching band during my freshman year ('62-'63) and got a free trip to the Rose Bowl. I gave up the trumpet after my freshman year and took up guitar. The lessons were on State Street, I believe at Patti Music. I remember Roy telling me that he had accompanied Harry Belafonte at one time. Maybe he knows more about Roy. The other thing I remember about Roy is that at the end of each lesson, he would write on my sheet music that I was to practice for the next lesson, "Bring Loot". To this day, I've got an envelope filed under "L" in my file cabinet where I keep some cash.
ReplyDeleteSteve: another of Roy's students emerges! Great! Are you still playing guitar? Would you consider joining the Facebook group ? If not, would you mind me sharing your story with them? Thanks so much!
DeleteHi, I've been trying to join the Friends and Students of Roy Plumb but had no response. I was at UW Madison just after Steve Koeppen ('67 - '71 and '72 - '74). I was the instrument repair person for Tom Patti's Patti Music store on State Street and took lessons from Roy as part of my arrangement with Tom. Tom treated me like a son and even asked Martin Guitar Co. to hand select a Rosewood N20 for me which to both of our surprises, they did. I don't remember his name, but there was another young man working there who had a Fernandez Cypress Flaminco guitar and played it very well. He led me to Sherry Brenner where I picked up an Jeronimo Pena Fernandez but classic model not Flamenco..... Just a few of the stories :)
DeleteIs this Al? This is the first name of the instrument repair person who worked on my guitar (but I don't remember the last name). Here's how to join the Friends and Students. You can friend me on Facebook. Could you also contact me at pasdirtz@wisc.edu?
DeleteHOW TO JOIN THIS GROUP: (1) You have to have your own Facebook account (you don't have to use it for anything other than to join this group). (2) You have to "friend" someone in the group. (3) Once you have a friend in the group (they've accepted you as a friend), go to the FRIENDS/STUDENTS OF ROY PLUMB home page and choose "Join Group" (the right-side menu bar under the row of pictures at the top). (4) Your friend in the group will have to go to their "notifications" page and "accept" you as a member of the group. (Done this way, new members do not have to go through the group administrator, which does not seem to be working at this time). Questions?
Unfortunately I didn't keep up the guitar though I still have it - an Epiphone. I have a Facebook account but don't use it. You're welcome to share my story, though. BTW, the envelope has the word "Loot" on it. It reminds me of Roy whenever I open it.
ReplyDeleteSteve: have you saved the arrangements that Roy wrote out for you? We are trying to collect as many scanned versions as we can (I would especially like to see one with "Bring Loot" on it)! My goal is to find a repository for Roy's original arrangements but haven't found one yet so the scanned images will have to do for now. They are at:
Deletehttps://mywebspace.wisc.edu/pasdirtz/web/Jazz/index.html
Hi - I have a few of the old Plumb charts. I wasn't able to locate the ones that you have on your site, though, George - do you have a direct link?
Deletewarren@warrensirota.com
There's a new link in the right-hand column for "Roy Plumb Arrangements"...
DeleteI studied with Roy for a long time. His guitar was made by someone named Roger and I can't remember his last name. I talked to him about building it when I was thinking of building a 7-string for myself. I have all of the arrangements Roy wrote during lessons. It was great studying with him.
ReplyDeleteEric, Thanks! I'll see if "Roger" rings a bell with anyone in the Roy Plumb Facebook group. I have a few more questions for you (Did you talk with Roger in Madison, etc., etc.). If you have time, send me an email pasdirtz@wisc.edu -- Thanks again!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe guitarist on the soundtrack for Picnic was George Van Eps. Kay Van Eps reminiscence can be read on the Classic Jazz Guitar website.
ReplyDeleteThe link on the Classic Jazz Guitar website is
Deletehttp://classicjazzguitar.com/articles/article.jsp?article=34
Thanks so much! That's great information. Roy was certainly part of the Van Eps 7-string tradition. It would be interesting to know if Roy collaborated with Van Eps on Picnic. Thanks again!
ReplyDeleteI a took lessons from Roy at Patti Music starting in 1961 because my mother made me since I refused to take piano lessons. Only girls did that back then. Roy taught me the first song I ever learned on guitar which was one I didn't want to learn but he made me do it. It was "Home On The Range." After a few months of not being taught what I wanted to learn I quit and taught myself how to play. I started playing in small southern Wisconsin small town bars when I was 14. That was 50 years ago and it's still how I make my living today. Roy gave me a good jump start.
ReplyDeleteRoy Plumb is my uncle. I wish I could help you collaborate information on his work, but it is all a question to me. He told me about all fo the things below, but I really can't find documentation to confirm. He also said that Quincy Jones used to call him to talk about arranging different things. I am not sure I can verify or validate anything that we all heard in our family.
ReplyDeleteIs this Cathy? I have a few questions for you if you would contact me at . Thanks so much for responding!
DeleteThe system skipped my email address which is pasdirtz@wisc.edu
DeleteI took lesson from Roy from 72' to 74'. $6 per 1/2 hour. I remember you had to pay for the month $24. A lot of money for a janitor at the time. He wrote $24 in a red pencil on my lesson when it was time to bring the "loot". I also remember you either had to audition or be referred to him in order to take lessons from him. I was referred to him by Dan Showalter. I still play the tunes he taught me. His was a great jazz guitar teaching method. After all these years I've yet to see a better one! I learned mostly big band tunes. Ellington, Gershwin, Bacharach, etc. I love that music. Few guitarists play that chord/melody style well. Roy Plumb Forever!!!
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting. A few of Roy's students have stayed in touch on Facebook, some have upload video or audio of their guitar work. Great to hear from you! Stay in touch...
DeleteI also took lessons from Roy on State Street in Madison from June-1981-June 1982. Here is what I fondly remember:
DeleteLesson $6.00 each. Paid cash and he would separate out a dollar for Uncle Sam and place it in a different pocket.
I never saw him play guitar. He would say "What song for today?" I would name a song and he would take my spiral blank notation book and begin to whistle the melody while writing out these amazing chord melody arrangements of standard jazz songs. How he did it without touching a guitar is a mystery to me. Today, almost 40 yrs later, I still play these arrangements. People think I am a professional when they hear one of Roy's arrangements which is really a testimony to Roy as a teacher, His tabs still help me.I did not know at the time that I was in the presence of such a Master but I know now and will always be grateful for Roy bringing up my guitar playing level significantly.
Also Roy was not one for tolerating students who did not practice with their lesson ready to go. To this day I have many of his arrangements memorized out of fear of being let go when I was with him. I think he still watches me practice from his current viewpoint as I play these chord melodies almost daily from the original notations. Probably cringes a bit when I reach clumsily for certain inside chords :(
One last point. I was a fan of Ricky Nelson as a young boy in the early 60's and wanted to be able to play guitar as Ricky did. It turns out Roy told me he gave music lessons to Ricky Nelson at the request of the elder Nelson-Ozzie.
Guitar has been a consistent friend to me since the age of 9. I was not meant to make a living in this arena but if that had been my vocation then Roy would have been my life long teacher because he simply was the best. If he is still giving lessons on the other side I will be in line to sign up when I get over there no matter what they charge!!!
Al Souma
I took lessons from Roy Plumb in 1977-1979 at the Ward-Brodt store on N. Henry after the Faulhaber family bought the bowling alley upstairs and moved the combo section upstairs. I actually was the combo store manager there after Doug Buttleman left to work for Tapco in Seattle. I left in the summer of 1979 and continued with Roy for another year. I had moved to Boston and would send him a cassette weekly and he would respond with notes and comments. Incredible teacher.
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting. Great to hear from all of Roy's Students!
Delete